Wednesday, February 17, 2010

It's in the Bible: God Hates Vegetarians (and celibacy too!)

About 15 years or so ago, I attended a Seventh Day Adventist Church for a few months. At the time I was having some bad problems with anxiety. It was generally a good time for me socially, but I never could do the kosher meat thing let alone the vegetarian thing. So, that contributed mildly to my anxiety. I eventually stopped going to that church.

The one bible passage that you'll never here an Adventist quote is this one.
Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron; Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth. For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving: For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer. 1 Timothy 4:1-5
There is another verse also that could be interpreted as condemning vegetarianism, but I wasn't clear that that was the intent of the verse after reading it in context (Romans 14:2). However the one above most certainly does condemn vegetarianism and also celibacy.

Even in the bible, christians can't keep their dogma off of everyone else's lifestyle choices. Yep, it's in The Bible!

17 comments:

Mark Morrison said...

Robert,

You are taking both verses out of context. The passage in 1 Timothy speaks of things that will happen in the end times. It has nothing to do with Romans 14:2.Read it again in that context and tell me what you think.

Sorry about the first one. I gotta start proof reading them. My spelling is horrible.

Robert Madewell said...

"It has nothing to do with Romans 14:2."

I thought I said that.

"There is another verse also that could be interpreted as condemning vegetarianism, but I wasn't clear that that was the intent of the verse after reading it in context (Romans 14:2). "

Yep, I did. So, what's your problem?

Mark said, "The passage in 1 Timothy speaks of things that will happen in the end times."

Whew! I'm so glad that we are not living in the end times. Thanks for clearing that up. Next, you need to tell my family that. Also, SDAs that I meantioned do believe that we are in the end times. Most independant Baptists who I know personally, also believe that we are in the latter days.

Maybe, your eschatology isn't the same as most Baptists? That's OK if it isn't.

Of course, I think most christians personally define "in context" as agreeing with them. :)

a said...

Do you honestly not understand what "in context" means, Robert? You attack this constantly, as though it's not a valid argument. All anyone wants here is for you to read the entire passage you get the verse from. For all the whining the atheist crowd does about "quote-mining" that's exactly what you're doing with the Bible. If you disagree with what one of us says a passage means, then study it out and show us why we're wrong.

Robert Madewell said...

Yes, I do know what context is, A. I read the entire chapter before I posted this. I don't see how it can be anything but vegetarianism and celibacy being called the doctrines of devils. I thought it was very clear. Did you not notice that the author of the passage says that every creature is good and should not be refused?

In my defense, again, I am pointing out that I admited that Romans 14:2 may mean something else when taken into context. So I didn't use that verse to make my point.

Context is a valid argument. I just believe that I did keep 1 Timothy 4:1-5 in context. And yes, I do hear the context argument brought up when context is not an issue, but interpretation is. If you want to say that I'm interpreting it wrong, you may have a more valid complaint.

Actually, you just admitted that interpretation is the issue here.

" If you disagree with what one of us says a passage means ..."

BTW, you said, "attack" which is one of my pet peeves. See, criticism is not attacking. I am a non-violent man and I resent being accused of attacking. I'd never use the word "attack" against you. So, please don't use it against me.

Robert Madewell said...

Ok, I'm going to go verse by verse through this silly passage. I'll paraphrase it so you can see where my interpretation is.

1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

My paraphrase:
The Holy Spirit told me clearly that in the last days of earth that some christians will not observe christianity correctly. They'll listen to persuasive spirits and they'll believe in doctrines invented by evil spirits.

2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;

My paraphrase:
The christians will not practise what they preach and they'll be insensitive to others.

3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.

My paraphrase:
They'll practise celibacy and will tell others not to eat meat, which God had created to be eaten. Those who know the truth are thankful for being able to eat meat.

4 For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:

My paraphrase:
God created all animals to be edible. You shouldn't turn your nose up to any of it, if you are thankful for the priviledge.

5 For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.

My paraphrase:
The bible says to eat meat and to pray before you eat it.

GCT said...

Funny that Paul would attack those who preach against marriage as he was big on celibacy himself and very anti-woman.

a said...

"2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;

My paraphrase:
The christians will not practise what they preach and they'll be insensitive to others."

This is not speaking of being insensitive to other. This is speaking of hardening their hearts to a point where they don't feel convicted by their sin.

As for your overall interpretation, most of it is ok (with the exception of your taking the word marry here to mean sex alone), however your interpretation listed above, is a stark contrast to your post title and the point that you posited. God does not hate vegetarians or celibacy. As you've correctly interpreted above, he simply says that IF someone desires to marry (marriage, not just sex) they should not be discouraged from it. The other portion of this verse says that nobody should be condemned for eating meat. It doesn't say "God hates vegetarians." It simply says that it's ungodly to forbid someone to eat meat. It says nothing of someone's personal choice of diet.

Robert Madewell said...

God does not hate vegetarians or celibacy. ... It doesn't say 'God hates vegetarians.'"

Oh man, A.
'God hates X' is a culture reference. I'm sorry that you didn't get it. You are right. The verse does not say that God hates vegetarians. Can anbody tell A why I chose the words 'God hates X'?

Nevermind. A, just google 'God Hates' and see what pops up. Even better do a google image search of "god hates." That should solve the mystery.

I bet that even Mark gets that culture reference.

Robert Madewell said...

A,

I've done the work for you. Click here to see a google image search of 'God Hates'.

Robert Madewell said...

Oh, I forgot.

The Wiktionary definition of Celibacy

The Merriam-Webster definition of Celibacy

Celibacy can mean both abstaining from marriage and abstaining from sex. Technically, it's abstaning from marriage. Abstaining from sex is chastity. There is some cross over of usage. NP

briebo said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Anonymous said...

Robert,

What book are you reading? I am using the New International Version, and it says 'food' instead of meat. I can see how someone would come to the conclusion that food = meat, based on the large amount of vegatarians out there. However, you also go on to say that no animal should be refused. If you're saying this, than cockroaches, grasshoppers, and wasps are also food that should not be refused. And before you say insects are not animals, they most certainly are.

Two more things I would like to add. You were 'attacking' the other poster. I know a lot of people like you. You're one of those people who get offended when someone doesn't agree with you. What a shock you're also christian. Do you ever wonder why most aetheists hate christianity more than any other religion? People like you are why. I am an open minded christian, and most of my friends are aetheist, and my best friend is wiccan, but do I judge them, no. Do they judge me, no. The one thing you need to understand about the bilble is that it was a book created to tell stories to show poeple how to live their lives. I certainly don't see christians today stoning people to death, do you? It's not a litteral translation on how to live. The bible is a personal book to learn how to live your life, it's not there to tell others how to live thiers.

Lastly, God gave a choice when we were put on Earth, you know, after evolution and all that happened. Anyway, back in the times of the bible, people didn't have plentiful food as we do today. Today, which is much different from the bible, we have more choices on what we eat. If people don't want to eat meat, they don't have to. I may be a christian, but I'm not going to start grabbing things and shoving it my mouth because it's eddible, and I hope you do not do the it either.

In conclusion, God created food to be eaten, however, he gave us a choice on what to eat. If we were starving, then sure, the law would make more sense, however, I am not starving, and thus can decide on what I'm going to eat for the day. One thing many people like you need to understand is a simple four letter sentence that would pretty much solve this world peace problem. And that is, "Live and let live."

I'm sorry if you can't understand that.

Robert Madewell said...

"What book are you reading?"

KJV

"And before you say insects are not animals, they most certainly are."

I'm so glad that you know what I'm going to say before I say it.

"I know a lot of people like you. You're one of those people who get offended when someone doesn't agree with you."

You sure know alot about me. Did Jesus tell you all that?

"What a shock you're also christian."

I am? Gosh, I need to take care of that problem right away. Maybe, that's why I've been having acid reflux.

"Do you ever wonder why most aetheists [sic] hate christianity more than any other religion? People like you are why."

I think you are confused.

"I am an open minded christian, and most of my friends are aetheist [sic], and my best friend is wiccan, but do I judge them, no. Do they judge me, no."

I'm so proud of you! (BTW, have you read my other posts?)

"I certainly don't see christians today stoning people to death, do you?"

No. I'm glad too. If they followed their holy book literally, they should be stoning people to death. All Christians are Cafeteria Christians. Some just don't admit it.

"In conclusion, God created food to be eaten, however, he gave us a choice on what to eat. If we were starving, then sure, the law would make more sense, however, I am not starving, and thus can decide on what I'm going to eat for the day. One thing many people like you need to understand is a simple four letter sentence that would pretty much solve this world peace problem. And that is, "Live and let live."

I'm sorry if you can't understand that."


Do you feel better, now that you got that off of your chest?

I am not a Christian. I am an atheist. I used to be a Christian, but have rejected that religion. I am also a strong critic of The Bible. This article is a critique of a bible passage. Sorry, if my writing style confused you.

Robert Madewell said...

"What book are you reading?"

KJV

"And before you say insects are not animals, they most certainly are."

I'm so glad that you know what I'm going to say before I say it.

"I know a lot of people like you. You're one of those people who get offended when someone doesn't agree with you."

You sure know alot about me. Did Jesus tell you all that?

"What a shock you're also christian."

I am? Gosh, I need to take care of that problem right away. Maybe, that's why I've been having acid reflux.

"Do you ever wonder why most aetheists [sic] hate christianity more than any other religion? People like you are why."

I think you are confused.

"I am an open minded christian, and most of my friends are aetheist [sic], and my best friend is wiccan, but do I judge them, no. Do they judge me, no."

I'm so proud of you! (BTW, have you read my other posts?)

"I certainly don't see christians today stoning people to death, do you?"

No. I'm glad too. If they followed their holy book literally, they should be stoning people to death. All Christians are Cafeteria Christians. Some just don't admit it.

"In conclusion, God created food to be eaten, however, he gave us a choice on what to eat. If we were starving, then sure, the law would make more sense, however, I am not starving, and thus can decide on what I'm going to eat for the day. One thing many people like you need to understand is a simple four letter sentence that would pretty much solve this world peace problem. And that is, "Live and let live."

I'm sorry if you can't understand that."


Do you feel better, now that you got that off of your chest?

I am not a Christian. I am an atheist. I used to be a Christian, but have rejected that religion. I am also a strong critic of The Bible. This article is a critique of a bible passage. Sorry, if my writing style confused you.

Anonymous said...

As for FOODS and MEAT read 1 Corinthians 10:25 - 31 !

Anonymous said...

St. Paul was just speaking against the Gnostic heresy. St. Paul was saying Marriage is holy and eating is not sinful. Jesus said there are those who are celibate for the sake of the Kingdom. So celibacy, Jesus even embraced. Being Catholic puts all things in context. The Catholic Church put the Bible together.

Anonymous said...

From what I understand, this passage says that in the last days some may ask others to live by the law (the law once forbade eating of certain food) and not by faith. How you then need to interpret it is, it doesn't matter what you eat or don't eat.

Peace.