Sunday, January 17, 2010

Malachi Madness!

Click image to enlarge.

Image found at Russell's Teapot.


Temaskian said...


That's most likely chocolate ice cream.

Robert Madewell said...

I would hope so, Temaskian.

I do think it nicely illustrates my point, though. Don't you think?

My last run at being a church going christian was at a small country church near the Bufalo River. I was introduced to an unusual doctrine there that I had not been familiar with.

They taught that God punishes people for what their ancestors did (they call it ancestral sins). At the time, my wife and I thought that this could not be very biblical. However, I found that there are bible verses that support this doctrine. Malachi 2:3 is one of those verses.

Behold! I will corrupt your seed.

I don't see how you can get any other meaning out of that verse. Sounds very clear to me.

I would refuse to worship a god that punishes innocent people for something someone else did long ago, if such a creature happened to exist. Just because a being is powerful and mighty does not make it worthy of respect.

RD86 said...

Seed doesn't always mean children. It can mean anything you sow. Judging by the context, it says that anything this guy starts will not prosper. Has nothing to do with "ancestral sin" which is just ludicrous.

RD86 said...

Seed doesn't always mean children. It can mean anything you sow. Judging by the context, it says that anything this guy starts will not prosper. Has nothing to do with "ancestral sin" which is just ludicrous.

Robert Madewell said...

Because of you I will rebuke your descendants; I will spread on your faces the offal from your festival sacrifices, and you will be carried off with it. [NIV]

I will punish your descendants and splatter your faces with the manure from your festival sacrifices, and I will throw you on the manure pile. [NLT]

Behold, I am going to rebuke your offspring, and I will spread refuse on your faces, the refuse of your feasts; and you will be taken away with it. [NAS]

I'm going to punish your descendants. I'm going to spread excrement on your faces, the excrement from your festival sacrifices. You will be discarded with it. [God's Word®]

Several modern translations say different, RD86.

I also know several ministers that would agree with me, RD86. I know, they are probably not True Christians™.

ethinethin said...

RD86 would have contempt for those ministers for twisting scripture... how dare they read scripture literally when it's meant to be a metaphor!

RD86 said...

That's why I only read the King James Bible. But you are right that some would agree with you. That's true of many bad interpretations though.

Robert Madewell said...

RD86, I know. If they disagree with you, they must be wrong. But, that's the problem. So many different kinds of christians who believe different things, yet they can quote scripture to back up their position.

Seems that you can justify just about anything using the bible.

Just in case you are wondering if there are other verses supporting ancestral sin, take a look at this.

I'm sure you can quote the bible in opposition to ancestral sin. Yet at the same time, they can quote scripture in favor of it.

That's the problem with the bible. You guys would like to think that it's inerrant, but that's not what happens in practice.

RD86 said...

Just because something can be quote-mined doesn't make it wrong. You may believe everything that Richard Dawkins says. However, just because I can take something he said, and twist it out of context so it disagrees with the entire rest of his statement doesn't change what he really originally meant. Look at the second amendment and the way folks have twisted it to say "EVERYONE OUGHT TO HAVE A GUN!" That's not what it says, but I bet I can find just as many who interpret it that way as interpret it correctly. Doesn't change it's original meaning just because a large number of people are mistaken.

Robert Madewell said...

"Just because something can be quote-mined doesn't make it wrong."

True! However, the original intent of that verse is really unknown. So, saying one thing or the other has about as much chance of being right.

One thing I'll agree with you on. I do not believe that God will punish people for the sins of there ancestors. As a matter of fact, I don't believe that he will punish you for your own sins. I also don't believe in that the tooth fairy put coins under pillows in exchange for baby teeth.

Robert Madewell said...

I was reading the Holey Buy Bull and stumbled upon this.

Or if a soul touch any unclean thing, whether it be a carcase of an unclean beast, or a carcase of unclean cattle, or the carcase of unclean creeping things, and if it be hidden from him; he also shall be unclean, and guilty. Or if he touch the uncleanness of man, whatsoever uncleanness it be that a man shall be defiled withal, and it be hid from him; when he knoweth of it, then he shall be guilty. Leviticus 5:2-3

If God is going to smear poo on people's faces, wouldn't that make him unclean and guilty just like the verses above say? Or is it the divine exception. You know, it's Ok for God to disobey his own rules since he made them.

RD86 said...

Guilty just means in need of cleansing and sanctification, you doofus.

Robert Madewell said...

Whatever, RD86. Again, I am purposely ridiculing your holy book because it is ridiculous. I guess that God is so pure that even when he comes unclean, he's still pure. Meh!

WWJD? Call people childish names? Whatever, I've been called worse.