Sunday, July 26, 2009

Big Cats, Prime Rib and Aryan Jesus

Last week my wife passed her NCLEX-RN test. So, we went on a short trip to Eureka Springs this weekend to celebrate.

We saw some cool sites. The first stop we took was at Turpentine Creek Big Cat Refuge. We had a blast. Seeing big cats up close was quite exciting. We got some pictures and a short movie.


Next we had some good eats, then stayed the night in a nice room with a jacuzzi. The next morning (sunday), I went to church. Gasp!, I know, but it was a Unitarian Universalist church. The only one within a hundred miles. Judy is looking for a congregation that won't shove creationism and other dogma down her throat. We might go back next sunday. The people were super duper nice. I didn't get pictures of the church. Sorry.

Well, our last stop in Eureka Springs was The Christ of the Ozarks.
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The statue is one of the 100 tallest statues in the world (I don't know which number). Seems that this statue gets thousands of evangelical christian visitors every year. It is an impressive statue. There's a plaque that credits the people who built it. However, nowhere is there any info on the minister who paid for this project (other than his name). For good reason.
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Look at that square jaw and the low cheek bones and the high forehead. If it was painted, I bet the eyes would be blue. Jesus is very white in this depiction. More that that, Jesus looks very nordic in this depiction. That could as easily be the face of Odin or Thor. Why do you think that Jesus was depicted in this way? I know why.

Because, Gerald L. K. Smith was a white supremecist. Thousands of christians of all races come to visit this statue thinking what a great symbol of American christianity it is. All along, they're paying homage to a man who preached that the holocaust was a Jewish conspiracy and championed the idea of sending every black citizen to africa. Nice fellow this Smith was. An example of a fine upstanding christian he was.

Do you want to know what the best thing I saw on the trip to the statue was?
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May he rest in peace and may we have the peace in the world that he would have opposed if he was still alive.

52 comments:

The Rambling Taoist said...

Let me share with you something interesting about Eureka Springs. Despite the fact that the big J looks down over that tiny hamlet, he doesn't seem to be motivating much control over the residents. Back in the early 80s, I was one of the 2 state child abuse investigators for Carroll County. Want to know where most of the reports for incest and sexual abuse pertained to?

Yes, you guessed it, Eureka Springs. There seemed to be more perverts and pedophiles living there than in the rest of the county combined! Quite a few drunks and wife beaters too.

ethinethin said...

Of course, Robert, you forget.. Gerald L. K. Smith wasn't a true christian.

Anonymous said...

He'll probably have a place in Hell near this other Holocaust denier

http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2006/05/an_atheist_holocaust_denier.php

But he's probably not a true atheist.

Robert Madewell said...

Anonymous,

I have no doubts that there are a few atheist holocaust deniers out there. There's probably a few atheist pro-lifers as well. See, atheists don't have a set of rules or doctrines that we have to follow to be atheists. There's only one requirement for being an atheist. Disbelief in God or gods.

However, when a christian like Smith shows up with all kinds of whacked out beliefs, the more "orthadox" christians bend over backward to deny that he's a True Christian™.

Robert Madewell said...

Taoist, I've heard that from other sources as well. That's probably due to the town being a tourist trap. It's the same deal with Branson, Missouri and Taney County.

Anonymous said...

So when some whackjob says he's a Christian but doesn't follow the basic tenets of faith, we are supposed to say nothing?

People like Tiller's murderer and this guy are not only "not true Christians" but not really Christians at all.

ethinethin said...

People like Tiller's murderer and this guy are not only "not true Christians" but not really Christians at all.


Despite the fact that they claimed they were (and were motivated by it or whatever)?

They're christians whether you like it or not. So are mormons, catholics, jehovah's witnesses, eastern orthodox, lutherans, etc.

You can't claim that they aren't because they do something that you consider distasteful or evil. But every time there is a christian who does evil, that tired old "not true christians" or "not even christians" fallacy is trotted out.

Robert Madewell said...

I know anonymous,
Being born again is supposed to change a person life to the point that they do not wish to do evil. So as long as they are on the straight and narrow, they are True Christians™. As long as their beliefs are accepted by the mainstream, they're True Christians™. But as soon as they do something or preach something that the secular world can point at and say, "See! I told you!", they are no longer True Christians™. You guys move the goal post so fast that no one sees it move.

The fact is that christians are human. By denying that christians are capable of murder or hate, you are denying them of their humanity and you'll be disapointed. I'm not saying that people can't change. They most certainly can. I have. But, it takes work and saying a few magic words will not do it.

ethinethin said...

Exactly, Robert. I was just thinking that a moment ago: they move the goal post, so to speak.

So many christians get divorces, it's okay if they do, they're still christians (despite the gospels having strong words against it). Or other various offenses against the teachings attributed to christ (such as being wealthy, not loving your enemies, etc).

But if someone steps over the line drawn by society and does something that mainstream society disagrees with, the good christian soldiers come forth with their "not a true christian" line.

And Anonymous's earlier post then brings up one bad atheist they found somewhere and implies that all atheists should apologize for him or make excuses (which we don't bother because there is no church of atheism, despite what people like Eric Hovind think).

It's just fallacious thinking on the part of the anonymous christian and it is a very common attitude.

How refreshing it would be if a christian would come forward and say "yes, he was a christian, but unfortunately he was deeply flawed. It happens, regardless of religious convictions. Particularly, it isn't indicative of the teachings of christ, but some christian groups throughout history have tried to claim that it is" or something realistic.

But no.. he wasn't a true christian, really. He wasn't even a christian, see.

Mark Morrison said...

However, when a christian like Smith shows up with all kinds of whacked out beliefs, the more "orthadox" christians bend over backward to deny that he's a True Christian™.

Please define what makes a True Christian.

ethinethin said...

Mark, the point is the term "True Christian" is fallacious.

ethinethin said...

Sorry, not always fallacious, but often used fallaciously. Hit publish too quick.

Anonymous said...

"By denying that christians are capable of murder or hate"

I don't recall saying that. I have hate in my own life I need to get rid of. However, certain offenses are so egregious that they cause us to look at a person's testimony up to that point and question whether or not they truly got right with God in the first place. Many claim it but haven't really become "a new creature" as the Bible says. The Sinner's Prayer or whatever you want to call it is not a get out of Hell free card. I would bet that hundreds say it each year and don't mean it at all.

Robert Madewell said...

Mark, I'm not the one doing the defining. I'm not the one spouting "not a True Christian™"

Like ethinethin said, the term is used fallaciously too often. Also, it comes from the confusion of using different definitions of the term.

Anonymous said, "The Sinner's Prayer or whatever you want to call it is not a get out of Hell free card. I would bet that hundreds say it each year and don't mean it at all."

Actually, that's close to the point I have tried to make in the past. My difference from you is that humans are not "black and white" and we're not always consistant. IOW, Just because someone says the magic words (sinner's prayer) and means it, does not mean that they'll stop being human. All the magic words do is play on guilt. There's no real change. A person can get saved one night and go "sinning" the next night. But, that doesn't mean that the person didn't mean it when she said the sinner's prayer.

Anonymous said...

"Just because someone says the magic words (sinner's prayer) and means it, does not mean that they'll stop being human. All the magic words do is play on guilt. There's no real change. A person can get saved one night and go "sinning" the next night. But, that doesn't mean that the person didn't mean it when she said the sinner's prayer."

We actually agree more than you might think. I agree that just because a person gets saved does not stop them from being a sinner in any way. They have simply accepted that they are and made things right with God.

I have been saved for quite some time, and probably sin every day. While I do often see folks so remarkably far out of the will of God that I might say, "They sure don't act like much of a Christian," certainly whether or not they are saved is between them and God and I can't judge that 100% as I don't know their heart. I do believe that you can tell a tree by the fruit it bears, and if someone gets saved, and then gives no indication of the new spirit that dwells within them, it is likely they may have not meant what they said, and simply were scared by a preacher somewhere into "getting saved."

Robert Madewell said...

"I agree that just because a person gets saved does not stop them from being a sinner in any way."

Yet, they are expected to have a change in life. If there isn't an appreciable change then he/she gets judged and accused of not actually meaning it when he/she repented. Of course that causes more guilt and shame.

My point is that nothing actually happens whether you mean it or not. Humans are not "black and white", we are not consistant. One day I could repent and mean it, the next forget all about it. That's part of being human.

We can change, but that takes work. Asking a heavenly prophet into your heart is trying to take the easy way out. Try to reap benefits without actually doing anything. That approach is bound to fail.

GCT said...

"...certainly whether or not they are saved is between them and God and I can't judge that 100% as I don't know their heart. I do believe that you can tell a tree by the fruit it bears, and if someone gets saved, and then gives no indication of the new spirit that dwells within them, it is likely they may have not meant what they said..."

Wanna make up your mind?

Lorena said...

Glad you had a blast! Congratulations to your wife.

We have a few Unitarian churches around here, and I've visited two. The first one I disliked, and the second one I loved.

They teach the kids critical thinking, humanism, evolution, and inter-racial communication skills.

The day I went they spoke, quite intelligently, of Darwin, and I learned a lot.

I'm planning on going more often, just for social purposes, as they have movie nights, dancing, concerts, and all kinds of things that won't offend either me or my husband, so we can go together.

Anonymous said...

Robert: I believe you can have a change in life, but that is only in that you desire to be like Jesus. Actually learning to do so takes time, study, and perseverance. Too many folks equate "saved" with "being a Christian." I know many saved people I wouldn't deem to be Christ-like, and there are also many who live a very Christ-like existence but simply have never accepted Jesus' death on the cross as payment of their sin-debt.


GCT - I said, "I can't judge 100%" but that I think it's "likely." No contradiction there. It's okay if you don't care for me, but don't make up garbage just as a reason to post. Can you possibly stand not to even reply to this? I doubt it.

Robert Madewell said...

"... there are also many who live a very Christ-like existence but simply have never accepted Jesus' death on the cross as payment of their sin-debt."

...or has rejected the need for someone perfect to die to pay for someone else's mistakes. Is God going to smile when he gets to torture them for eternity?

GCT said...

"I said, "I can't judge 100%" but that I think it's "likely." No contradiction there."

Not the part I was talking about, but hey, whatever.

You said you can't judge, but then turned around and said that you believe you can.

The second part was a contradiction in itself I'm realizing. You said that someone can be saved but not mean what they said...even though you're claiming that if someone didn't mean what they said they couldn't be saved.

"It's okay if you don't care for me, but don't make up garbage just as a reason to post."

Why don't you be more clear then, instead of blaming me for your inconsistency?

"Can you possibly stand not to even reply to this? I doubt it."

Ah, clever...I see what you did there. Act as if the very act of someone responding to you is somehow invasive or profane so that you can try to shame the other person into not doing it...or when they do respond, you can whine and complain some more. Nice.

Anonymous said...

GCT - No, I sincerely don't understand your reason for antagonizing someone who isn't even speaking to you. When I said they got saved and then appear not to have meant what they said, I meant exactly that. And like you said, if they didn't mean it, they didn't get saved. The wholed discussion was about people "getting saved" but then living a contrary lifestyle. My point was that yes, indeed there are folks who said the sinner's prayer but were just cajoled into it, not really doing anything more than reciting the words.



Robert - "...or has rejected the need for someone perfect to die to pay for someone else's mistakes."

I'm just glad you're not playing church if you don't mean it. Better to flat out reject Him than to pretend. Unfortunately, if you've never truly accepted Jesus as your Savior, you will burn in Hell for all eternity. In this case, that's not any kind of judgement call on my part, but just what the Bible says. If you're right and it's all a joke, you'll be fine. If you're not.....

Robert Madewell said...

"If you're right and it's all a joke, you'll be fine. If you're not....."

Nice soul ya got der. It wud be a shame if sompin wer to happin to it!

Yeah, Devine Blackmail. If you can't bring them in with love, threaten them with horrible pain forever. Anonymous, I think you already know what I think about that. Pascal's wager doesn't work either because you'd just be promoting the "playing church" scenario.

Also, I do not think religion is a joke. I'm not laughing. I don't see anything funny at all about torture and threats.

Robert Madewell said...

Here's what Iron Chariots says about Not a True Christian™.

When someone says, "That person wasn't really a Christian because he did that," they are relying on ambiguity in the word Christian and redefining it to suit their needs.

That says what I been trying to say all along ... in one sentence.

It also applies to "We're not a Religion©" from a few articles back.

Anonymous said...

I wasn't trying to threaten you Robert. And I wasn't encouraging you to "fake it" either. I was trying to make a sincere point that this is serious business, and it would do you well to give faith a chance. Not saying to "get saved" even, but just not to try so hard to bash it.

Mark Morrison said...

Robert Madewell said...
Mark, I'm not the one doing the defining. I'm not the one spouting "not a True Christian™"

Like ethinethin said, the term is used fallaciously too often. Also, it comes from the confusion of using different definitions of the term.

Anonymous said, "The Sinner's Prayer or whatever you want to call it is not a get out of Hell free card. I would bet that hundreds say it each year and don't mean it at all."

Actually, that's close to the point I have tried to make in the past. My difference from you is that humans are not "black and white" and we're not always consistant. IOW, Just because someone says the magic words (sinner's prayer) and means it, does not mean that they'll stop being human. All the magic words do is play on guilt. There's no real change. A person can get saved one night and go "sinning" the next night. But, that doesn't mean that the person didn't mean it when she said the sinner's prayer.

July 28, 2009 4:59

Wow, I think we may be getting somewhere. Your right, we are still human. We are still prone to mess up. But when we mess up we don't throw away our beliefs. We repent & turn from that sin. I understand your point about how we can say well he never was one to begin with. It just seems clear to me, but maybe not others.

GCT said...

Anon,
"No, I sincerely don't understand your reason for antagonizing someone who isn't even speaking to you."

We're all making comments here. I pointed out that your comments were either sloppy or fallacious. Deal with it.

"When I said they got saved and then appear not to have meant what they said, I meant exactly that."

Then, my comments stand.

"Unfortunately, if you've never truly accepted Jesus as your Savior, you will burn in Hell for all eternity."

How does this concept fit in with a loving god? If god loves us, how can he burn us in hell? Let me ask you this. Do you think you could torture someone you love?

"I wasn't trying to threaten you Robert."

No, you personally are not threatening Robert, you're just the middleman passing on god's threats in an attempt to coerce him out of fear.

"I was trying to make a sincere point that this is serious business, and it would do you well to give faith a chance."

How does one "give faith a chance?" Can you give faith a chance with Zeus for a day?

Mark Morrison,
"I understand your point about how we can say well he never was one to begin with. It just seems clear to me, but maybe not others."

Oh really? You have the magical ability to tell who is a real Xian and who isn't? Do tell us the secret will you?

Robert Madewell said...

Anonymous,

I find the use of the "Threat of Hell" by many fundamentalists to be deplorable. I know that you're not the one that supposedly is going to do the punishing, but the threat is still there (even if it is a false one). Besides, when has threatening people actually worked well anyways? It rarely does.

Just imagine what it sounds like to me. "Jesus loves you so much that he died on the cross for you so that you can be saved. But, if you don't do what we say, his dad will torture you forever." Hmmmm? Yeah, sounds pretty sick on my end.

Really, I don't know of any christian that has been saved because of the threat of hell. There's usually other things that convince a person to become religious.

This is my suggestion. Even if you do believe in Hell, just don't use it as a selling point for your religion. It doesn't sell. Worrying about what will happen in the hereafter isn't what I'd suggest for anyone. Sounds like a good source of unneeded stress.

Anonymous said...

"Besides, when has threatening people actually worked well anyways? It rarely does."

Really? I rarely smack my son's butt for disobeying. If he understands that it is a true option, then merely the threat of it is enough to get his attention.
Every law on the books is a "threat" of some sort, and it works rather well for most people. If someone will not obey the law out of their own morality, then the threat is necessary. Look at Kent Hovind. Because he was thrown in jail, and now knows the threat is not empty, it's likely when he gets out he'll pay his taxes the way he should, even if he doesn't do so out of his own desire to do what's right.
Consider this: My little boy likes to play in our front yard. We live on a street with relatively little traffic, but it's necessary for him to stay out of the road, for his own sake. I tell him over and over again, and next thing I know he's playing in the road. No other threat or punishment has worked, so the final straw is, I say, "Buddy, you need to stay out of the road, or you're gonna get hit by a car."

Anonymous said...

You are wrong Bob. More people get saved to avoid eternity in Hell than anything else. It's really a desperate situation. You accept Jesus as your Savior, or you go to Hell. That's the way it is.

Robert Madewell said...

Anonymous,
Maybe you're right on the threats actually being a deterrant.

But, the problem I have is that the threat is not that we'll get a spanking after we die. The threat's not that we'll do 2000 years of jail time after we die. The threat is that we will be punished forever without any chance of rehabilitation. That seems quite excessive to me. Like, if instead of reminding your boy that someone might hit him with a car, you would tell him, "Stop playing in the road, or I'm going to get in my car and run you over." That's the kind of threat that hell is.

"You are wrong Bob. More people get saved to avoid eternity in Hell than anything else. It's really a desperate situation. You accept Jesus as your Savior, or you go to Hell. That's the way it is"

Then you're filling the churches with hypocrites. They don't love God or Jesus. They're just trying to keep in God's good graces so he won't burn them. If that's actually what they believe, then I don't blame them.

Me? I don't think that a God that would resort to brutal threats to get attention worthy of my worship.

Also, what kind of diety want to be surrounded by people who only praise him because they afraid of him getting mad and torturing them forever. Sounds like a tough kind of love to me.

ethinethin said...

Anomyous...
More people get saved to avoid eternity in Hell than anything else.


And that's the clever thing about it, isn't it?

Nearly every religion has a proprietary threat like this to bring people into it. Even in christianity, people in the wrong sects will burn in hell because they're believing in Jesus the wrong way.

In fact, without these proprietary threats, coupled with the reward for eternal bliss, religion never would have been able to be used to control the masses of uneducated people (and that includes modern times).

Would any christian still go to church if there was no eternal punishment? If there was no reward for believing in jesus, would anyone even want to believe? Would muslims continue to pray five times a day if there was no punishment for not doing so? Would the extremists still blow themselves up if there was no heaven waiting for them?

Anonymous said...

Ah yes, those guys who wrote it to control the masses. Of course, they were all murdered for it, but I'm sure they thought it was still worth keeping the lie to the death.

Anonymous said...

"Also, what kind of diety want to be surrounded by people who only praise him because they afraid of him getting mad and torturing them forever. Sounds like a tough kind of love to me."

No Christian who gets saved out of fear continues only to fear God. It's the fear that drives them to God, but once you gain a relationship with Him, He displays His love for you that you were blinded to originally. If you are alive to read this, it is only by His grace. He does love you, and that's why He tries so hard to motivate you, so that you get to a point where you can see his tremendous love. My life since becoming a saved, Christian man, is amazingly better than it ever was before. I have friends I can actually trust. I have a Lord who gives me greater vision when I'm short sighted and caught up in the moment of my turmoil. I have even had folks with which I had problems open their heart that friendships might be mended. I have talents that now are not being used simply for my own gain or enjoyment, but rather to fulfill an ultimate purpose. I have seen God heal people that the doctors said they could do nothing for. Yes, come to God for the salvation, but you will stay because you've never had a friend like Jesus.

Robert Madewell said...

"I have seen God heal people that the doctors said they could do nothing for."

And I know about a little girl who died because God was trying to heal her when the doctors said that they could have saved her life with a $10.00 shot. Oh, I forget. They weren't True Christians™.

ethinethin said...

Of course, they were all murdered for it,

Proof for that, please?

I will also point out that Joseph Smith, of whom most christians would consider a false prophet and charlatan, was murdered (by protestants) for his "beliefs".

Anonymous said...

Robert, rejecting medical treatment isn't promoted by the Bible.

GCT said...

"Ah yes, those guys who wrote it to control the masses."

I don't think the stories were intentionally made up to "control the masses." I think the stories came about as ways of groups of people to identify with each other and build strong clan bonds (not conciously, but naturally). People have, however, seen the value in continuing these stories (Xian churches and evangelists) in using them to fleece and control people for sure.

"Of course, they were all murdered for it, but I'm sure they thought it was still worth keeping the lie to the death."

First of all, we don't know what happened to the majority of the "disciples." Secondly, they probably did believe in these myths, just as Brigham Young did.

"No Christian who gets saved out of fear continues only to fear God. It's the fear that drives them to God, but once you gain a relationship with Him, He displays His love for you that you were blinded to originally."

Sort of like the stalker that threatens women and attacks them with weapons. It's only because he's trying to make them fear him until they give in, but then they will learn to love him as he does them. Why does god think this is a good plan? This is especially questionable since the Bible states that most will go to hell. Obviously, the plan that god decided to use is pretty flawed.

"If you are alive to read this, it is only by His grace."

I'm sure that people suffering from Ebola or Hanta Virus or any number of other maladies would whole-heartedly agree with you.

"He does love you, and that's why He tries so hard to motivate you, so that you get to a point where you can see his tremendous love."

Yes, he loves us so much that he decides that we will go to hell unless he further decides to save us. But, that's not all. He loves us so much that he won't actually come and talk to us. He loves us so much that he sends threats through emissaries that may or may not be speaking the truth and make claims that are virtually indistinguishable from other emissaries' threats and claims. He loves us so much that he provides no evidence to us, instead claiming that we have to make a choice based on zero evidence and that we'll burn in hell for eternity for messing up. He loves us so much that the choice we make is based on factual understandings of the universe instead of our moral fiber. He loves us so much that he created hell in the first place in order to send most of humanity...after making many of them toil and labor on the Earth with disease and pestilence, etc.

"...you've never had a friend like Jesus."

With a friend like that, who needs enemies?

"My life since becoming a saved, Christian man, is amazingly better than it ever was before."

Are you normally in the habit of drawing bulls-eyes around arrows you've already shot?

"Robert, rejecting medical treatment isn't promoted by the Bible."

I seem to recall something about it saying that if you're sick you should annoint yourself with oil and pray.

Anonymous said...

test

Anonymous said...

I find it interesting that you are so intent on focusing on the "threats" than on the promises. God hands out many more rewards than he does punishments in the Bible. The Bible says he is constantly looking for someone to bless. It also says the devil is a roaring lion wandering to and fro seeking for whom he might devour.

My statment about happiness was not some "bullseye" drawn after I had made the decision. It is an honest comment. I have never been happier in my life than when I truly feel I'm glorifying God in some way. There is a maker, and ever maker has a purpose in mind for his creation. You will be no happier than when you free yourself from the bondage of sin, so that you can feel that gentle nudge of the Holy Spirit, guiding you towards your intended purpose. It's an amazing thing. I fought long and hard, but if I had only known the peace that was waiting, I would have gotten saved as soon as I first heard the gospel.

ethinethin said...

Cool story, bro

GCT said...

"God hands out many more rewards than he does punishments in the Bible."

This is factually wrong. The Bible outright claims that most people will go to hell. (Camels and needles anyone?)

"My statment about happiness was not some "bullseye" drawn after I had made the decision. It is an honest comment."

I'm sure you honestly think that you are speaking honestly and that you honestly do attribute your happiness to god. This, however, doesn't change the nature of what is happening. It may be true that some deity is up there making you happy (wouldn't that violate free will?) but the more parsimonious answer is that it's all due to your own psychology and that you are simply re-attributing it to some deity concept that you like.

"I have never been happier in my life than when I truly feel I'm glorifying God in some way."

Ah, but how do you know that you are glorifying god? Perhaps every time you praise Yahweh, Allah is making a check mark next to your name in preparation for your stay in hell.

"You will be no happier than when you free yourself from the bondage of sin, so that you can feel that gentle nudge of the Holy Spirit, guiding you towards your intended purpose."

Why is it not considered bondage to be guided towards some path that someone else has picked out for me?

"I fought long and hard, but if I had only known the peace that was waiting, I would have gotten saved as soon as I first heard the gospel."

If you are saved, does that mean that you will go to heaven no matter what you do?

Anonymous said...

Yes it does.

The Rambling Taoist said...

OK, let me try to get this straight. You're saying that if a person is saved, then they are saved for good?

Let's say Earl is saved. He leads a good Christian life until one day he flips his lid and walks into the local market with an AK-47. He murders 12 people and wounds another 7.

However, because he has been saved, he still gets to go to heaven to enjoy a life of milk and honey.

I'm sorry, but that doesn't seem quite fair to me. In fact, I would say that anyone who believed in such a system is off their nut and should be locked up.

GCT said...

I'll note that all my other comments and objections were ignored.

But, let's look at the logic of 'once saved, always saved' from a different angle than TRT...

Once you are saved, why would you not commit suicide? (Note, I'm not actually saying that anyone here should commit suicide, only that it's logically consistent.) If one is saved, then one would be able to go to heaven no matter what else transpires. Committing suicide would ensure that the saved person gets to heaven sooner, rather than later, thus alleviating any suffering in this life. Even if the person had a very nice, easy life, that would be like suffering compared to the joy and bliss that the person would find in heaven, so it would still make sense.

Anonymous said...

Because as a Christian, I love my Savior, and want to do what he put me here to do.

ethinethin said...

What does he put you here to do and how do you know that?

Anonymous said...

I believe the Bible is God's word. Through the words of the Bible God tells us that we are created to perform good works, and spread the gospel. Much more detailed than that, but those are the two commands in a nutshell.

GCT said...

"Because as a Christian, I love my Savior, and want to do what he put me here to do."

You have no idea what he put you here to do. One thing is certain though, keeping you here is keeping you from your eternal reward. IOW, god is keeping you away and keeping you from your happiness which you have already earned. Why would that be? I still see no reason why you should not want to die as soon as possible. It's inconsistent.

Anonymous said...

I'm sorry you don't understand. I apparently can't change that for you. I explained it in the last message as simply as possible.

GCT said...

"I'm sorry you don't understand."

No, I understand quite well. Why do you assume that I don't? I used to be a Xian.

What you don't understand is that everything you think you know about god is what you've made up in your mind to be correct. What you take the Bible to mean is your interpretation and not necessarily true. You don't know that god exists. You don't know that the Bible is god's word. You don't know that your reading of the Bible is correct. You don't know that your beliefs are correct. They are simply your beliefs. Until you can offer up some evidence, they remain unsupported.

GCT said...

And, it's still inconsistent. Why would god want you to suffer if god loves you so much and wants to be with you? Why would god not want you to be in heaven as soon as you are saved? And, who is doing the saving anyway? It's inconsistent.