Sunday, September 28, 2008

Atheist Starter Kit #06

6. Say that you were once a genuine Christian, and that you found it to be false. (The cool thing about being an atheist is that you can lie through your teeth, because you believe that are no moral absolutes.) Additionally, if a Christian points out that this is impossible (simply due to the very definition of Christianity as one who knows the Lord), just reply "That's the 'no true Scotsman fallacy.'" --Ray Comfort

Ray may be right for one reason and wrong for another.

Ray may be right in so far that I consider myself a natural free-thinker. I tried to be a good christian. I really did try. However, I couldn't wrap my mind around the fallacious logic I was being taught. I never really bought creationism. My dad is a gap creationist. It just never made much sense to me. Also, the brutality and barbarism in the bible sickened me. I couldn't justify God as being merciful and just after reading Deuteronomy 22:23-24 and many other verses.

Ray is also wrong because I was raised by a pastor. I grew up believing in Jesus. When I was young, I believed what my parents told me. I believed in God and Hell. I was even saved at the age of five (like many, many children are) because the stories scared me horribly. It wasn't until my early twenties that I really started having problems with christian logic. I even rededicated my life to God during my early adulthood, because I was afraid that maybe I was too young to be saved at five. I rededicated my life again at age twenty-seven, and again at age thirty-six. Did God ignore those times that I sincerely came to him in prayer, asking him to come into my heart and to guide my life in a way that would glorify him?

Of course, according to the second sentence, I'm obviously lying. My honesty has been discredited before I could even start. It's a strawman. The sentence assumes that because I'm an atheist, I don't believe in objective morality. That couldn't be further from the truth. Moral objectivism deserves a post of its own.

I am a christian who became an atheist at middle age. If you say, 'No true christian would become an atheist in his late thirties' then that is the 'no true Scotsman fallacy.' It is a fallacy. The only reason someone would fall into such a fallacy is to avoid admitting that he's wrong.

I'll close with this thought. How dare someone tell me that I was this or that without knowing me. Ray does not know me personally. He has no right to say that I wasn't a true christian. I do however agree with him on one thing. He would say that I was never saved. I agree, I was never saved because nobody is ever saved. The magic words do not work.


nonmagic said...

This is a fantastic post. I was scared into 'getting saved' when I was 4. I can not count how many times I did it after that out of fear. Probably hundreds.

But fundies can't handle that. All of those prayers must have been false because I don't believe in their friend anymore.

When I told my deconversion story, people at Ray's told me that I was never a true Christian, which in light of my story, was one of the most illogical things they could have said. That's right around the time I stopped trying to reason with them.

Anonymous said...

Ray's stating that atheist lie through their teeth would contradict christian behavior.
I have never met a christian that acted any different from a non believer. They actually show irrational behavoir, such as name calling, hate,lie's,intolerance, and maybe most of all a total lack of science.
Larry M Jhonson

Pvblivs said...

     It is my belief that christianity cannot survive without lying. Oh, there may have been a time when the leaders could believe earnestly (not the original leaders; they had to know they were blowing smoke) but that time is long gone.

Anders said...

I am myself an ex-Christian who found logical fallacies in Christianity.

The left menu at contains a formal logical proof of the existence of an Intelligent and Perfect Creator (of the universe).

I reccomend you to read that.

Anders Branderud