Saturday, April 10, 2010

We're in the News!

Earlier, this week, three freethought groups in Northwest Arkansas put up a Coalition of reason billboard. I attend two of these groups, so I am very proud, though the part I played was so minuscule as to be almost nothing.

Here's a local news video featuring a very good friend, Darrell Henschell.

In a few minutes, I am heading out to the site of the sign to get my picture with a bunch of other freethinkers.

21 comments:

Mark Morrison said...

Mark 10:17-22 (King James Version)

17And when he was gone forth into the way, there came one running, and kneeled to him, and asked him, Good Master, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life?

18And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.

19Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Defraud not, Honour thy father and mother.

20And he answered and said unto him, Master, all these have I observed from my youth.

21Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me.

22And he was sad at that saying, and went away grieved: for he had great possessions.


Robert, Good by your standards and Good by God's standards are two very different thigns.

Savonarola said...

Mark wrote,
Robert, Good by your standards and Good by God's standards are two very different [things].
I agree. Robert's standards are immeasurably better than your imaginary God's standards.

Robert Madewell said...

Sav, in one sentence, you said what I was going to take several paragraphs to say! I appreciate the vote of confidence.

Mark, I'm trying to figure out how your scripture reference is applicable.

But, it doesn't matter. Know why? Because, I do not believe that the bible is the word of God. You can quote it all you want and the only response I can give is, "Yep, that's what the bible says." Now, whether or not I think I should do what the bible says depends on my own sense of morality. I accuse almost all Christians of doing this as well. IOW, if it's obviously bad, you're not going to do it even if the Bible tells you to.
Example: 1 Corinthians 11:5-6
Clarification: You're not going to hold a woman down and shave her head because she was caught praying without a hat. However, it is in the Bible.

Also, for me to believe that Good by my standards and Good by God's standards are two very different things, I'd first have to establish that God does in fact exist. I have not established that as a fact, yet.

Robert Madewell said...

Ooooh! I just noticed something in your scripture passage that I hadn't noticed before.

In verse 18, Jesus says, "Why are you calling me good? No one is good except for God."

Jesus denies that he is good and says that only God can be good. How can that be when Jesus is God in human form? Why would he have rebuked the rich man for calling him good if he was in fact the goodest of all people that ever lived and lived a perfectly sin free life?

Oh yeah, I'm probably taking that out of context too. I've figured out what context means. If it goes against The Southern Baptist Convention's doctrinal statement, then it is out of context. LOL

Mark Morrison said...

Robert,

in verse 18 Jesus points to the fact that He is God. He corrected the young man's understanding of what "good" really is.

Mark Morrison said...

Oh yeah, I'm probably taking that out of context too. I've figured out what context means. If it goes against The Southern Baptist Convention's doctrinal statement, then it is out of context. LOL

For a freethinker you are pretty closed minded.

Mark Morrison said...

Savonarola said...
I agree. Robert's standards are immeasurably better than your imaginary God's standards.

I have seen how man views his own "goodness". That is why we have rape,murder,and a whole other multitude of sins. You can have your "goodness" I'll take God's anyday.

Robert Madewell said...

Mark said, "in verse 18 Jesus points to the fact that He is God. He corrected the young man's understanding of what "good" really is."

I really don't see how you can interpret it that way. Jesus may have told the young man what good was, but Jesus didn't say that he was God in that verse. I don't think my paraphrase was far off. "Why are you calling me good? Only God is good." That sounds like Jesus slammed the man for calling anyone but God good.

Mark said, "For a freethinker you are pretty closed minded."

It was a joke. I'd think that the LOL would have clued you in.

Robert Madewell said...

Mark said, "I have seen how man views his own "goodness". That is why we have rape,murder,and a whole other multitude of sins. You can have your "goodness" I'll take God's anyday."

I haven't raped and murdered anyone, yet. I don't know about all the other sins. <joke>I think I dribbled on the toilet seat a little after taking a pee. Is that one of the multitude of sins you are taking about? </joke>

Savonarola said...

I have seen how man views his own "goodness". That is why we have rape,murder,and a whole other multitude of sins. You can have your "goodness" I'll take God's anyday.

No, we have behaviors tagged as "sins" because of a book of ridiculous ancient fairy tales.

But more to your point: Great examples! If we are to use your Bible, we need only look to *God* for examples of these sins being committed.

Rape: God impregnated Mary without her consent.
Murder: (Lots of examples here; I'll pick a simple one.) Lot's wife.

I, on the other hand, haven't raped or murdered anyone.

So, as you consider rape and murder not-good: Sav 2, Robert 2, God 0.

(And I didn't even have to bring Catholic priests into the scoring.)

Mark Morrison said...

Savonarola,

Have you ever hated someone? If so you have committed murder. How about lie? Take something not yours? Use Gods name in vain?

The answer to all of the above is yes, you have. Like all mankind you are a sinner. There is none good but one,that is God!

Robert Madewell said...

Yeah, the old "thought crime" sin.

We've gone over this a long time ago. Mark, I disagree with what your Bible says about that.

I don't believe that anyone can read anyone elses mind and I don't believe that there is a God that can, either. So, it's not the thoughts that harm others, it's the acting on those thoughts.

If you are of a sound enough mind that you can have a passing thought about a women with a tight butt, and not go out to try to have sex with her, you have hurt no one. I'd argue that if you have trouble resisting urges to act upon such thoughts, you are probably mentally ill. I'm sure that our prisons are half full of the untreated mentally ill.

So, when Rick Warrens said that he would do terrible crimes if it wasn't for Jesus, I was flabbergasted. If it takes threats of hell and guilt to keep you from murdering and raping, I think a psych hospital would do you more good than religion.

Savonarola said...

Mark wrote,
Have you ever hated someone? If so you have committed murder.

Robert wrote,
Mark, I disagree with what your Bible says about that.

So does everyone else who is functionally literate in English. My mere thoughts -- regardless of whether they are hateful -- do not cause anyone death, and only idiots would pretend that they do.


Mark also wrote,
There is none good but one,that is God!

But I showed that God is not even good by God's own alleged standards. Even if you try to impeach my argument by feebly accusing me of being a bad person, you haven't negated the fact that the God of the Bible isn't good. In fact, as I have not caused anybody an actual death -- while God has -- (and ignoring all sorts of other factors also in my favor) I'm still ahead... If I'm such a sinner, and I'm ahead of God.... gee, not looking too good for ol' YHWH, is it?

L.Long said...

Mark---How does one take 'g0d's name in vain'??? I don't know g0d's name to take it anywhere!!!

Mark Morrison said...

1 Corinthians 1:18-31 (King James Version)

18For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

19For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.

20Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?

21For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

22For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:

23But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;

24But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.

25Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.

26For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:

27But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;

28And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:

29That no flesh should glory in his presence.

30But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:

31That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.

Mark Morrison said...

God punishes all of humanity for it's sin. He doesn't owe us anything, it's only through His grace,His mercy are we able to come to Him. On judgement day you will remember your owns words as you kneel before Jesus. I haven't asked anyone here to join a Church or send me your money. I only ask for an open mind. But most of you guys and girls here have dug in a look for a fight. I can't argue you into believing because it is a choice that you must make.

Savonarola said...

Mark wrote,
God punishes all of humanity for it's [sic] sin.

Sav says:
What a great guy. I get punished for Catholic priests' discretions.

Mark wrote,
it's only through His grace,His mercy are we able to come to Him.

Sav explains:
So you have to believe in order to believe. Quite a conundrum.

Mark says,
I only ask for an open mind.

Sav points out,
You ask for us to consider accepting as true an ancient fairy tale. We did consider, and we rejected. So when you "ask for an open mind," you're doing nothing of the sort; you're asking us to be willing to accept things for which there is no reason to accept. That's not having an open mind, that's being irrational.

Mark writes,
But most of you guys and girls here have dug in a look for a fight.

Sav points out:
This coming from someone commenting on the blog of one of my friends and telling me that I'm a bad person because I'm not his imaginary sky man. Yes, surely I'm looking for a fight. *rolls eyes*

Mark writes,
I can't argue you into believing because it is a choice that you must make.

Sav explains:
No, you can't argue me into believing because you have no logical grounds for such belief.

ethinethin said...

@Mark
I only ask for an open mind.

This coming from the person who admits that nothing could make him stop believing in god.

Mark in another thread:
There is nothing that could happen that would make me not believe in God.

Here is a video about open-mindedness you may enjoy.

Mark Morrison said...

ethinethin,

I found it funny when it said that " Science promotes and thrives on open-mindedness because the advancement or our understanding about the reality in which we exist depends on our willingness to consider new ideas Scientific discovery often requires new ways of thinking".

Yet when someone speaks of creation they are shut down. You will not even consider it. Would this be the open-mindedness that you speak of ?

Mark Morrison said...

Savonarola said...
Mark wrote,
God punishes all of humanity for it's sin.

Sav says:
What a great guy. I get punished for Catholic priests' discretions.

Mark says:
No you get punished for your own sins. Ever told a lie ? Taken something ?


Mark wrote,
it's only through His grace,His mercy are we able to come to Him.

Sav explains:
So you have to believe in order to believe. Quite a conundrum.

Mark says:
I have no idea how you got that from what I said. Sav, God gave us a way back to Him. He didn't have to but He did. That's Grace and Mercy.


Mark says,
I only ask for an open mind.

Sav points out,
You ask for us to consider accepting as true an ancient fairy tale. We did consider, and we rejected. So when you "ask for an open mind," you're doing nothing of the sort; you're asking us to be willing to accept things for which there is no reason to accept. That's not having an open mind, that's being irrational.

Mark says: see response to ethinethin

Mark writes,
But most of you guys and girls here have dug in a look for a fight.

Sav points out:
This coming from someone commenting on the blog of one of my friends and telling me that I'm a bad person because I'm not his imaginary sky man. Yes, surely I'm looking for a fight. *rolls eyes*

Mark says: I have been writing here on and off for over a year. I don't troll. I like Robert and haven't had anyproblems with anyone else here. Everyone is very nice even though we don't agree. It is an open blog, if Robert wants me to leave I will. Until then I'll share my thoughts as you do.

Anonymous said...

If I die in error of judgment to find there is no God, i have lost nothing. You on their other hand if you die & err on the side to find that there is a Infinite Intelligent Creator, which you defiantly denied, you have wagered & lost infinitely more then can be recovered, your immortal soul.
Rom 6:23